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remolaxa
05-31-2009, 12:24 AM
Fatal error: Call to undefined function: evaluate() in /nfs/c01/h02/mnt/34326/domains/aragon-online.net/html/aragon/include/inc_formula.php on line 334

Merlin
05-31-2009, 02:37 AM
That should be fixed now.

ibukovec
05-31-2009, 05:51 PM
Here some "features" that need to be changed:

1. If u recruite troops after battel (before u hit next world or region turn) u get all the xp for the new troops as well (Nice way to get instant level 9 inf).
2. The rounds of archers can shoot should be limited (15 max).
3. Damage troops do at higher level is insane, right now i use low armored troops to get numbers (HP). No fun in losing an 770 HP unit without being able to attack in a single blow form another enemy unit (goblin). So if damg is not reduced there is no need for armor since it dosnt change anything (At least for the armor with size increase).
4. Treasure calculation is somehow wrong (or is tresure deducted each weak (also wrong))
5. Giants and titans need more HP and Dmg they can inflict. Somehow its strange to be afraid of goblins and to be happy ablut giants and titans(armor and weapons delivered with easy XP)
6. Trolls need regeneration, or they are the weakest (tactial) of all.
7. XP from city defence should be distributed to all troops (milita also just fro share calculation). If not u can level up ur main hero easy, and by this all other gain levels fast.
8. See eco section for eco suggestion.

More will come if wanted.

Moriority
05-31-2009, 11:45 PM
I agree. We need to carefully look at the data numbers, like damage, hit points and armor class for these units. Since their initial creation, some races and classes have had changes made to them that now put them out of balance with new game features. We need to correct them when ever they become evident. So, keep 'em coming and we will continue to correct and refine the numbers, damage, hits, armor, etc.

Incidently, Sword of Aragon had trolls regenerating making them fearsome opponets. That was 20 years ago, trust me, trolls will be regenerating soon. (Be careful what you wish for General, those trolls may be coming for you!)

Moriority

Merlin
06-01-2009, 12:18 AM
I buffed-up Giants and Titans a bit. We'll need to find out from beginning players if they are now too tough. If so, I'll raise the level at which they are encountered.

Troll regeneration is in place - it may need a bit of work. Be sure to let us know if there is anything odd, as the code has been only briefly tested.

Eudrick
06-05-2009, 02:59 AM
Here some "features" that need to be changed:


6. Trolls need regeneration, or they are the weakest (tactial) of all.



Hey Ivan

Thanks buddy. I caught Trolls the day You suggested this, Let me tell ya, they ain't no namby pambys any more. Watch your hieny the next time you see them. They regenerate with an Evil Passion. Had to kill off thier leaders THREE TIMES.

Fred

Merlin
06-05-2009, 03:38 AM
Hah! Now we got some nasssty Trollses.

ibukovec
06-08-2009, 12:01 PM
HELP! What happand to my eco? I have only small production values now (Tresure 3k now 500, food 2,8k now 1,8k and the rest is smaller also). Can u check pls.

Ivan

ibukovec
06-08-2009, 12:15 PM
Bowmen missile: Theobald suffered 328 hits and was eliminated!

What happand with Bow dmg? This was an ranger at turn 0/1 at a distance of at least 14 hexes.
I noticed it first when batteling trolls, but now vrs orcs i do also huge dmg. (They vrs me also).

when we are at it some dmg is stupid, just give the max HP value not something like this:
2nd. Guards attack: Slapdud suffered 2504 hits and was eliminated!

Merlin
06-08-2009, 01:10 PM
Damage should be under control somewhat now. I removed the cap on damage so you can get trolls below zero, so they won't immediately regenerate back to life. Unfortunately, I introduced a bug in ranged attack damage.

ibukovec
06-08-2009, 02:32 PM
HELP! What happand to my eco? I have only small production values now (Tresure 3k now 500, food 2,8k now 1,8k and the rest is smaller also). Can u check pls.

Ivan

Anything on this? I can ony make 2 months of play with my current stock of food.

BTW my battle wont load now.

Merlin
06-08-2009, 07:26 PM
Battles are fixed.

I checked the economics, and everything looks normal. I did add the army to food consumption recently, so that may be where some of the food is going.

ibukovec
06-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Battles are fixed.

I checked the economics, and everything looks normal. I did add the army to food consumption recently, so that may be where some of the food is going.
Why do my 25 Jeweler produce 211,8 tresure now? I produced 10 times more. The values for manufacturing where 25-35 GP production per building. Im at 88 % efficiency, but right now my jewelers produce very little (arround 9 per building). Either i had to much before or i have to little now.

Merlin
06-09-2009, 12:43 AM
Okay, you're right. I meant to change the number of workers required, agreeing with your comments on that. But, i inadvertently changed the production instead. Production is back to what it was, with slightly reduced workers required.

ibukovec
06-10-2009, 08:41 PM
a few "features" that should be removed in time.
1 vigor potion gives only 1 %, this is to little.
2. Kite shield is useless, u get more by taking Medium shield. I sugest to increase Kite to 15/15/15
3. Giant seem still weak (They are somewhat stronger then before), maybe decrease their size by 1 to allow more of them in 1 unit?
4. My weapon/armor/bow/mount dosnt change at all (+ or -) I only get things from battle but i dont gain/lose any from production/maintaince. IF its conected to warehouse then the bug is in not decreasing the numbers due to maintaince.

Moriority
06-10-2009, 09:56 PM
Ibukovec;

Good catch on the Vigor potion. The Giants seem weak to me too. In Sword of Aragon, I thought they were also weak but often times they threw big bolders that did a lot of damage to your units. Titans were worse. How about more emphasis on high-damage missiles from Giants and Titans? Bolders instead of arrows.

Weapon, armor, bow, mount figures should be dependent upon your city's Armorer, Weaponer, etc. We are still refining the costs of these resources and the benefits that are bestowed upon the player for investing in the resources. I would like to see a tabulation window that shows the cost and benefits of increasing a resource. What an Armorer does for the player is not fully explained. The Help file is out-dated on this subject. Are the Armorers, Weaponers etc. involved in manufacture of weapons, rehabiliation of captured weapons, repairing existing weapons or all of the above? How many swords will an armory manufacture, in a given amount of time, with a certain amount of resource, with what Stores and how much?
So we have some refinementst to make. Your playtesting and posting are a great help to us as we work on solving the many aspects of Aragon Online. We very much appreciate it.

Moriority

Merlin
06-11-2009, 12:59 PM
a few "features" that should be removed in time.
1 vigor potion gives only 1 %, this is to little.
2. Kite shield is useless, u get more by taking Medium shield. I sugest to increase Kite to 15/15/15
3. Giant seem still weak (They are somewhat stronger then before), maybe decrease their size by 1 to allow more of them in 1 unit?
4. My weapon/armor/bow/mount dosnt change at all (+ or -) I only get things from battle but i dont gain/lose any from production/maintaince. IF its conected to warehouse then the bug is in not decreasing the numbers due to maintaince.
Vigor potions, as well as a few others, are fixed for units. Increased Kite shield defense. Giants buffed up a little (how is a surprise!) We're still looking into the production.

ibukovec
06-11-2009, 03:07 PM
How about more emphasis on high-damage missiles from Giants and Titans? Bolders instead of arrows.

Only missile increase for them would be bad. But if u change the attack behavior of then it can be interesting. Just position them arround the city and let them wait for u to come.

Moriority
06-12-2009, 12:06 AM
Sereral Artificial Intellegence schemes are being working out for NPC units. Currently, the random battles are set to "Very Aggressive". This was set this way of course so that we could playtest battles. It's silly of course to expect any army that crosses your path wishes to impale themselves on your pikes for the heck of it. So we have to make random battles seem like they make some sense. We have introduced a player choice as to whether or not to attack. We are working on enemy strategies such as "Run Away", "Run but with Rear Guard", "Probe and Quick Retreat", "Fight a Running Battle", "Entrench and Defend", "Somewhat Agressive', etc. Some of these are going to be very difficult to employ as you might imagine, but if writers can set a variance of NPC agressiveness, it's going to make random battles so much more intellegent.

Moriority

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 05:49 AM
TO help the AI just make an calculation of the enemy army and let him decide his behavior based on this (and of his own army). I know this is hard to get but with some probing there could be some interesting results. If u have a lot of Hvy inf with low missile units (only Lt. Cross or so) then fight an ranged combat. If u have just archers then attack ...

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 09:27 AM
HELP!!!!!
My food is 0.
Last turn i had 29 Bakery's wich produced 1450 (At 100 %). Now i get 291 (at 100 %). So we are back to the original problem i had. I build 8 bakery's this turn (The idea was to cover the -300 food per month i had). So due this bugs i felt in a few months from 4000 food to 0. Without the NPC trade (and the bugs) i would be at 3000 now. I need the old values back now or my ppl will starve.
If 1 bakery produces 50 food again i will be a little over 100 in surplus/per month. If not im ****.
Jeweler is at 388,5 last turn 2500.

Merlin
06-12-2009, 12:01 PM
You need more agriculture to provide raw materials for your bakeries. Build more farms - not bakeries. I bumped your food up to compensate while you adjust to this change.

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 12:14 PM
You need more agriculture to provide raw materials for your bakeries. Build more farms - not bakeries. I bumped your food up to compensate while you adjust to this change.

Nice, so there is an ration now on raw material building u need to use Manufacturing buildings. Whats the ratio? And does it apply to the buildings as well?

Merlin
06-12-2009, 12:26 PM
I need to document a bunch of the economic calculations and limits. Bakery, Sawmill and Mason production is limited to two times the corresponding raw material. Smelter and Jeweler are limited to 2.5 times their raw material. I'll be adding some better "consumption" calculations of those materials later.

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 12:51 PM
I need to document a bunch of the economic calculations and limits. Bakery, Sawmill and Mason production is limited to two times the corresponding raw material. Smelter and Jeweler are limited to 2.5 times their raw material. I'll be adding some better "consumption" calculations of those materials later.
So the Resource production is not taken into account (as raw material), just the Development production (both from the Details of city). Uff this will be interesting to handle, but it makes it logic and development a bit slower.
First impression is that its ok, but in a few turns i can say more.

Merlin
06-12-2009, 01:00 PM
The limit is based on the production, not the stored material. If you had more farms, your bakeries will also return to production. I may want to tweak that a bit - putting some lower limit so they never go to zero. This would simulate adding value to trade goods and stores that are usable.

The next big change will probably be implementing warehouses, so you can only store as much stuff as you have warehouse "production", but there are some details to be worked out for that. I'll put up a news notice when I do that, or just before, so players can build warehouses before that time.

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 01:05 PM
I meant this: BTW does it add to city production? Is it used for anything?

City Data Pages

RESOURCE Resource Production Number http://aragon-online.net/forums/../aragon/grafix/lnd10.png Arable Land 890.0 445 http://aragon-online.net/forums/../aragon/grafix/for10.png Forest 15.4 41 http://aragon-online.net/forums/../aragon/grafix/rck10.png Rock 90.0 45 http://aragon-online.net/forums/../aragon/grafix/lod10.png Lode 55.0 11 http://aragon-online.net/forums/../aragon/grafix/ore10.png Ore 190.0 19

Merlin
06-12-2009, 07:23 PM
Each of the resources produces a small amount of stuff. Arable land produces a little food, for example. Farms produce quite a lot more, obviously.

ibukovec
06-12-2009, 08:07 PM
Each of the resources produces a small amount of stuff. Arable land produces a little food, for example. Farms produce quite a lot more, obviously.

Thats what i thought, so the question is why dont u use it as an raw material base also? Its much easyer to say for each farm u can have 2 bakerys then to calculate the production. It only makes sense if this is also taken into account for max manufacturing.

Knurt
06-12-2009, 08:35 PM
The economics portion of the game is extremely complex and in an unfinished state. We will have to make further improvements and adjustments that may harm some players. Witness the recent change in food consumption for soldiers. (Wait until Sir Robin finds out how much soldiers can eat.) As Napoleon said a soldier travels on his stomach.
There are a lot of things that need to be clearned up on the economic screen. Tool Tips and Help menus are good are far as they go, but... Again, I confess, I don't have an answer as to how to easily explain all of the many intricacies of the economic game.
Hang in there, its just a problem that has not yet been solved.

Knurt

Merlin
06-13-2009, 05:42 AM
The economics portion of the game is extremely complex and in an unfinished state. We will have to make further improvements and adjustments that may harm some players. Witness the recent change in food consumption for soldiers. (Wait until Sir Robin finds out how much soldiers can eat.) As Napoleon said a soldier travels on his stomach.
There are a lot of things that need to be clearned up on the economic screen. Tool Tips and Help menus are good are far as they go, but... Again, I confess, I don't have an answer as to how to easily explain all of the many intricacies of the economic game.
Hang in there, its just a problem that has not yet been solved.

Knurt
It's not unfinished. It's evolving. We're going to document the economics in the next couple of days, so players know what they are facing.

ibukovec
06-13-2009, 02:15 PM
Vigor potions, as well as a few others, are fixed for units. Increased Kite shield defense. Giants buffed up a little (how is a surprise!) We're still looking into the production.

Kite shield is still the same, i didnt try Vigor. For the giants i didnt saw any difference (i did note that all races use potions now).
Since the warehouse thing i get this msg each time i enter a new month: Database error
after i hit refresh it gets me into the next month but 1 weak later (Like i did 2 turns)


Ivan

Merlin
06-13-2009, 04:26 PM
I've been trying to find that DB error, but I don't get it on my test system, for some reason. I'll add some additional debug code to see if I can find it.

I *really* upgraded Kite Shield defense this time. We'll keep working on Giants - there is something new, but it is either not working, or invisible?

ibukovec
06-13-2009, 06:23 PM
About the Kite shield, u did it this time. But why take a Kite if ur mounted units are allowed to take Large shields (Tower shields). These shield should be for ground troops only.

Merlin
06-13-2009, 07:24 PM
Mounted units shouldn't be allowed Large or Tower shields. That will have to be fixed.

ibukovec
06-15-2009, 10:19 AM
I get this error often: A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, or you can continue to see if the script will complete.

Script: http://aragon-online.net/aragon/include/common.js:33

Also can pls someone tell me the following.
How is Treasure expence calculated.

I tried it manual and i get income1140,3 (without tax, how is it calculated anyway) (do i add market here?), expense 1723,8 (without ongoing production) but each new month my change is 0, as it is with armor, weapon ..... I put production 0 and still no change.
Do heroes have an upkeep, in unit->combat it says 0, is this true?

Merlin
06-15-2009, 01:35 PM
On the City Details screen:

Production Income: Ore + Mineral + Jeweler + Market

Tax Income: Sum of all other production (except non-material items like Housing and Warehouse) times the tax rate.

Production and Construction Expenses: Sum of everything in the Treasure Columns

Unit Expenses: Sum of the Maint Cost

If your expense is greater than income, then change is adjusted so treasure won't go below zero.

ibukovec
06-15-2009, 04:24 PM
So with market and tax im way in the positive and i still get no increase.

This means i lose money somewhere, only explanation are heroes.

1. Do heroes have an treasure upkeep?
2. Sum of all other production, does this include magic, weapons, bows... or just wood, stone, metal?
3. Is there a maximum on the markets? or can i build like 20 to get 250 treasure from each?

I know a lot of question but if u have the time i would like to know(others as well i guess).

Merlin
06-15-2009, 07:26 PM
Heroes don't have a treasure upkeep beyond their equipment. The sum of production is only agriculture through mineral, not including armorer, etc. There is no maximum on the markets, but now I'm thinking about what it should be.

I'll work on a ledger page that will show you in detail where your income and costs are. That is sorely needed, both for players and so we can debug any errors in financial calculations.

ibukovec
06-15-2009, 08:09 PM
Tx for the reply. I calculated my income and following ur numbers i should be way in the positive.
1140,3+683,3(market)+456,41(Development+Manufactur ing=1460,8+3103,3=4564,1*0,1=456,41)=2280,01
This is my income calculation.
expences are 1723,8 +construction (last turn 4 mines and 3 agri).

But i got no change in tresure, still -259 (ok it changed +23 or so)
SO there is a bug i guess. Some values have changed by now (troops go level) but basical thats it.

Merlin
06-17-2009, 01:53 PM
I did find a problem in the unit maintenance calculation. Check out the new Ledger tab on the city page. I'll be adding an Income section, and a complete balance sheet, as this progresses.

ibukovec
06-19-2009, 09:50 PM
There is an movement problem with troops. My heroe has to routes to go to his targets. Route 1 is blocked by my troops and he cant move into this square. The other square is free. For some reasons he tries to move through the full square. The result is no movement at all. Same is if an square would be full if movement is committed, so no troop moves.

Eudrick
06-20-2009, 12:30 AM
The AI has limited "intellegnce" and will look for the "best" shortest route from point A to point B. If the route is blocked, by reason of stacking limits then YOU have to plan an altenate route by taking two movement turns. Pick an intermediate point that the unit WILL move to, take your turn and then move to the final destination on the next available turn. It's a pain, and it does mean that sometimes you miss out on a potential attack due to timing but given the nature of the game and it's complexity, it's a small price to pay. You cam lessen the number of times this happens by pre-checking the route. If you can't move the unit ONTO the same hex occupied by other units you can't move through it. This is one ove the reasons the game shows you the route you movemnt will take, I'm sure you've noticed the enemy stacking up like taxis in line at the airport for exactly the same reason... they all want to be in the same hex to attack YOU.

Merlin
06-20-2009, 01:07 AM
The move routine plots a path when you define the move, and it should avoid stacking problems. But I should probably recalculate the path when the move is actually attempted. That may resolve that problem.

Taxis at the airport...

ibukovec
06-20-2009, 08:11 AM
Point is that u can take both routes to get to the target.
U can Go NE SE or u can go SE NE. U will come to the same square. The AI shows that he will move SE NE (Since NE is blocked). But in execution he tries NE SE and he wont move.

ibukovec
06-20-2009, 08:20 AM
The potion refund was an glitch? I thought it was intended. This will make things harder now, lucky i "sold" most of my potions from my main caracter in time. He had 140 k magic in potions on him.
Considering this wouldnt it be wise to rethink the maintaince of magic shops? 500 $ is a lot. And even i as a warrior need a lot of them to keep my spellslingers supplied.
And now when u look at the inventory, isnt it a little strange to see Cure = 2500 and small shield = 30
Isnt it more likely that an small shield would have 30000 next to it (compared to a potion)?
It could be important later when u (if) add item creation.

Merlin
06-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Potions are priced high because of the excessive magic that we were all getting. We'll reassess costs as we adjust to the new system.

ibukovec
06-22-2009, 06:46 AM
My maintaince/Production is stuck i think. For 8 months my bow, armor, weapon dont change. It only increases from battle. CAn u look at it?
And why do i get these msg to increase housing? I have 3k ppl and 3.5 k housing.

ibukovec
07-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Date: 19 Mabia 1233 Q.J. Defended your city against a Elf army. 100% bonus for reducing enemy to -2% You gained a total of 1,191,208 experience. Experience bonus 33%
Your City Morale decreased by 8.8!
Your City Loyalty decreased by 14!
Your win-loss increased by 0.3

Your spoils are 403.9 armor, 91.1 weapon, 226.1 bow, 189.7 horse.

Is this a bug? -2% and no loot!

Ivan

Merlin
07-03-2009, 08:29 PM
Yes, it is a small bug. It shouldn't be -2%, as dead is dead, no matter how many negative hit points the enemy is reduced to.

Eudrick
07-04-2009, 03:07 AM
Ahhhh, but you've forgotten corpse defilement.

Heads on stakes, scalps, noses and ears collected , and the obligatory pyre (with mortally wounded but not yet dead). Not to mention the Horse steak cook-out (what ya think the pyre is for?).

ibukovec
07-04-2009, 07:17 PM
Yes, it is a small bug. It shouldn't be -2%, as dead is dead, no matter how many negative hit points the enemy is reduced to.
Ok it seems my troop overdid it. They chopped them with all the equipment to dust. I wonder how big the minus would be if the 1 unit didnt escape.

ibukovec
07-05-2009, 04:28 PM
If u take ur heroes and order them to shoot at other units (heroes) they wont shoot unless an unit also shoots at the same target in the same round.
I ordered 10 of my heroes to shoot, for 6 rounds (3 times shoot) there was nothing. As soon as i ordered a militia unit to shoot at the same target all shoot.
But the dmg is low, as only the militia did the dmg:
Theobald, Nathander, Ivanho, Albredict, Esmour, Ikyn, Oliva, Kane, Atheleistine, 4 Militia, Richol, Lancelot, Eric missile: Mtd. Infantry suffered 7 hits.
Theobald, Nathander, Ivanho, Albredict, Esmour, Ikyn, Oliva, Kane, Atheleistine, 4 Militia, Richol, Lancelot, Eric missile: Filge suffered 3 hits.

Merlin
07-05-2009, 10:43 PM
There are two things going on. One is that you only get a report and animation if there is some damage. (I intend to change that.) The low damage may be because of a change in the missile defense for armor and shields. It wasn't enough of a bonus before - but it may be too much now.

ibukovec
07-07-2009, 09:34 AM
There are two things going on. One is that you only get a report and animation if there is some damage. (I intend to change that.) The low damage may be because of a change in the missile defense for armor and shields. It wasn't enough of a bonus before - but it may be too much now.

DMg is ok, but how explain that my heroes start shooting right after the miliita did, and they shoot then each time (not all, but at least half of them). The dmg is ok if i look at my real archer units, militia isnt worth much anyway.