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par one
01-10-2011, 01:25 PM
well, after an ill fated attempt at being a goblin knight, i tried a new game as a human ranger. found an ok place for a city, and tried to build a new army, using the preset armies. only thing was, none of the units/henchmen have any equipment! and i don't have the stores to outfit them. i think this might have happened to me in one of my first games, too. my opening battle i could do no damage to anything, and got smoked. i don't think any of the boys had weapons!! had to duke it out barehanded with ogres.

Merlin
01-10-2011, 02:13 PM
That will work now - equipment fixed. What problems did you have as a goblin knight?

Eudrick
01-10-2011, 02:13 PM
i'll certainly look into that that. I've got a toss away character that I can restart.

EDIT: Too funny Merlin and I answered this one at the exact same time.

par one
01-11-2011, 12:18 PM
merlin

the problem with being a knight is, you have mostly cav units. which sounds real cool. especially if they are riding giant wolves.

but if you have mostly cavalry, you are kind of forced to use them. and i find with the combat engine, if you engage in melee early in a battle(without shooting up the enemy with lots of missiles), your losses are unacceptable. and with cav, you of course cannot use the entrench benefit.

as a main combat force, if one uses a lot of cavalry, you are going to have lots of casualties, broken/demoralized units. and early on, that is a tough thing to have(when your city is in its infancy).

one question that has something to do with this: i find a lot of my melee henchmen, esp ones without shields(say, a two handed weapon and plate) lose all their hit points in any melee they engage in, even if the supporting melee unit takes only minor losses. does this happen to you? only combats they seem to survive are roll overs(where they are attacking a unit that is almost destroyed already)

Eudrick
01-11-2011, 01:39 PM
Your henchmen at the onset are pretty weak (as I'm sure You've noticed). It takes quite a while to get them to the point where they are a viable fighting force on their own right. They are better used in support of the grunts. What I have done in the past is built my army as a predominately foot force (including the henchmen) that were heavily missile units. They may be Infantry or Mounted Infantry but they had no horses and carried X-bows. I would fight my battles as a stand off force for the longest time possible before having to engage hand to hand. Once the enemy was softened up enough the mop up was a lot easier. Hold the henchmen back at the initial onset of battle and use them all as one missile unit. Then use the henchmen later to pin demoralized enemy units until one of your grunt units can get there to finish them off.

Many levels later, I began the shift to hand weapons and mounts. My army now is entirely Mounted Infantry and Cavalry with NO bow weapons at all and my henchmen are pure muscle (17th level Knights and Warriors with 17th level priests and Rangers in support). A typical battle has me hasting my henchmen and cavalry units over 5-6 turns and then sending then henchmen out to surround the entire enemy formation while the calvary and MI dive right in. One round of Fear horns from the pickets takes the fight out of the enemy hand units and leaves only the problem of missile and spell attacks (amulets and armor help alleviate that). It's usually all over but the shouting from there.

One of the major mistakes that new players make is trying to do too much too soon. Time is an ally when building a fighting force and it takes many battles to get one worth its upkeep.



This is one of my warriors NOW, notice the number of hit points:
W2 Human Female Warrior 65,536,000 17 1 139 (139) / 20 (20)
Armor 1 Chain +3
Shield 1 Kite +2
Weapon 1 Long Sword +3
Thrown None
Pole 1 Spear +2
Missile None
Arrow None
Mount 1 Md Horse
Barding 1 Mail +2
Potion 10 Cure
Scroll
Amulet
1 Defense +3
1 Bravery +3
1 Fire Resist +3
1 Magic Prot +3 (active)
Boots 1 Endurance +3
Cloak 1 Concealment
Gauntlet 1 Strength +3
Helm 1 Command
Horseshoes 1 Speed +3
Ring None
Item
1 Horn of Bravery
1 Horn of Dread
1 Horn of Fatigue
1 Horn of Fear
1 Horn of Inspire

Combat Data Unit Mount
Number 1
Hits 139 (139) 20 (20)
Stack 5 (250) 8 (250)
Morale 100 100
Stamina 97 100
Move Rate 12 35

DEFENSE
Chain +3, Kite +2, Fire Resist +3, Endurance +3, Command / Md Horse, Mail +2, Speed +3
Slash 75 / 100
Bash 75 / 100
Pierce 75 / 90
Magic 15 / 0
Thrown 40 / 40
Missile 40 / 40
Mental 0 / 0
Air 0 / 0
Earth 0 / 0
Fire 70 / 0
Water 0 / 0
HAND
Long Sword +3, Spear +2, Strength +3 / Md Horse
Type S / B
Clock 3 / 1
Nbr Att 5 / 3
Attack 335 / 30
Dam Base 41 / 52
Dam Rnd 20 / 56

I still owe you and Endit some premium stuff, if this is the character you think you're going to stick with let me know and I'll send you some stuff to help your henchmen out.

par one
01-11-2011, 02:58 PM
i recognized that that strategy was necessary. just wondered if i tried a different race/specialty if i could use a different strategy. i think the way things are now, one has to use the missle strat no matter how you begin the game. which is a little binding. i wonder if, with some tweaking, different races/specialties could use different tactics. it seems odd if you are a cavalry guy, you can't attack directly with cavalry until you are deep into the game. just an idea.

Eudrick
01-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Par: This isn't specifically directed at you, per se, but more to the general player population. However, it does attempt to address some of the issues you've raised. {Entering Lecture Mode now}

Think historically for a second. What was the goal of villagers when confronted by raiders or bandits? Keep them out. And the armed force was usually 'militia'. The presence of a strong man who could command the loyalty of the town's folk and pay for fighting lackeys enabled a stronger defense and eventually evolved into the ability to expand territory by force of arms (or more often the THREAT of same).

Villages, often sited at a crucial natural location: a confluence of rivers, trade routes or a mountain pass, grew as the leadership was able to provide for a greater common defense and sanctuary for trades, scholars and the clergy. The feudal system, so en-scourged by historians, was the single greatest 'modern' development in the advent of the great (European) cities of today. The ability of a leader to have a dedicated fighting corps that was supported by levies on the town folk enabled him to 'play' politics and and expand his sway over the area.

Aragon follows that template loosely and as such , until your fighting corps is strong enough to withstand hand to hand combat, the missile strategy is pretty much required, regardless of Character and army composition.

The issue here is, that in any given battle, you're not evenly matched with the enemy. They are usually some % stronger than you and all things being the same can outlast you man to man. It behooves the player to take advantage of what technology is available and adapt to the reality of the situation. Whittling the enemy down with repeated missile attacks is plain common sense in the goal of preserving your fighting force as much as possible. Yeah, it's sucky that one can't use the army one has designed in the manner that they composed, but eventually you will be able to and I think you'll find that when that time comes the nature of the battles you'll fight will change in tenor and outcome. It's fun to totally wipe out an army of ogres while taking minimum damage but it'll be some time until you can do that. Right now, minimize your losses and build up your army's levels through stint of arms. The tipping point for any player is magic and until your henchmen can cast damage rather than defensive and hindrance spells all your battles are going to be defensive in nature. {End Lecture Mode}

I hope this helps.

par one
01-11-2011, 11:12 PM
hmmm. the armies did look better, had equipment. but now i am getting this error message:Fatal error: Call to undefined method Unit::create() in /nfs/c01/h09/mnt/34326/domains/aragon-online.net/html/aragon/include/cls_battle.php on line 166


don't spend much time on this merlin. i have no problem creating a new game. i have very little time invested in this one.

Merlin
01-12-2011, 07:19 PM
Error fixed. You shouldn't have to create a new game, just take a turn and the first battle should start.