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par one
01-04-2011, 10:42 AM
another question. i started a new game(my old army got annihilated). my city started in the negative food wise(home city was in the hills). i now have 8 0r 9 cultivated hexes, as well as three bakeries. i also expanded south of the center city hex and cultivated three hexes there, thinking the green land might be more productive. and i am still well over 300 to the negative on food each turn.

any ideas?

Merlin
01-04-2011, 03:09 PM
You have 10 agriculture under construction. Once those are complete, they will begin producing. You can see that in City > Detail screen.

Eudrick
01-04-2011, 10:37 PM
You can NEVER have too much food, just don't develop it all at once. And don't forget the warehouses.

par one
01-05-2011, 01:20 PM
how come more food is better? population growth? pop growth is really my main focus.

Eudrick
01-05-2011, 02:31 PM
Well, people eat. Food (and housing) are the main drivers for population growth.
Just like today, if you know you'll have a roof over your head and plenty to eat in the future you're more likely to have kids. Although morale enhancers really help too. Build some arts and markets and the folk 'get happy' and make babies.

Food is also the main trade item that every else wants. Excess food can be traded for other needed items (typically magic and weapons early in the game and other resources later)

par one
01-05-2011, 04:56 PM
well. that is too bad. my city is in the hills, and it's really hard to get a food surpous there. i can expand south, there are plains there. if i expand and cultivate, does that food come directly to my home province?

Moriority
01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Par One,

Developing an agrairian based society in the hills and mountains is very difficult. I suppose that's why civilization based on agriculture started in the river valleys instead of mountain tops. I recently had a dwarf character whose hill top town was chronically short of food. Fortunately, my character's region had a lot of mineral wealth with which to trade for food. See the World tab and then go to Trade.

Let us know if 1. the Trade page is clearly understood and 2. if you are able trade for enough food to feed your population. We need feedback on the viability of the Trade system and whether it will properly help player's exchange their surplus resources for resources in short supply.

I had hoped to increase the food supply of mountain dwellers with a simple literary introduction of a new food source, a fungi known by the dwarves as kaw. I do not believe kaw production is yet implimented into the game however.

Kurt

par one
01-05-2011, 09:49 PM
ok. i have been trying to use the trade feature, and have been getting by, trading for a few hundred food per turn. i am struggling a bit figuring out the trade system, and will try to frame some specific questions. the real drag is, the majority of my work force is working on agrarian production, limiting other endeavors.

Eudrick
01-06-2011, 03:42 AM
Regardless of what the terrain, food is (or should be) a primary goal of development. Everything else comes after.

If yo're not too invested in your game it might be a good idea to restart. Spend some time looking at the various hexes in the area that you want to build your city and pick one with the best resources. use a pencil and paper if you have to and track each hex for metal, ore AND Ag.

There is no tactical or strategic advantage to building in the hills or on top of a mountain at this point in the development of the game.

After many restarts, mostly due to play testing, I spent a full day looking at terrain and resources before deciding on the location of my city. A clear zone around the 12.12 hex is a plus as you don't need to remove trees or worry about hills blocking your LOS. Take into account the adjacent hexes next to your city site, as those will eventually become available to you for development.

Rykoffe
02-15-2011, 10:27 PM
Developing an agrairian based society in the hills and mountains is very difficult. I suppose that's why civilization based on agriculture started in the river valleys instead of mountain tops. I recently had a dwarf character whose hill top town was chronically short of food. Fortunately, my character's region had a lot of mineral wealth with which to trade for food. See the World tab and then go to Trade.

Let us know if 1. the Trade page is clearly understood and 2. if you are able trade for enough food to feed your population. We need feedback on the viability of the Trade system and whether it will properly help player's exchange their surplus resources for resources in short supply.

My fledgling sprawl of thatched huts is in a similar situation, though I knew it might be a little tougher on food going in. Currently down to about four turns left worth of food at the current rate, and will gladly try to give feedback about trade as I spiral into a meteoric crash.

I do have a few starter questions as I begin attempting to import to supplement what little (my) dwarves are growing, as I'm pretty certain they drink most of it rather than store it as food.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1737/tradecostpct.png


There's a divider between Import and Cost Pct. (under Export), but does the set amount of Cost Pct. influence Imports as well?
If Cost Pct. does not influence Import prices, how is what I pay (in type of resource and by how much) determined?
Aside from using the Automatic field, is this the only way to import? I did send some scouts to neighbors earlier, but am not sure that has any bearing on this.
If actively trading with current players is implemented, are there different steps I should be taking to optimize my trade? I had read... Corwin currently has a 3 cornered trade going with 2 other trading partners where one will trade food for lumber and one will trade lumber for metal and Corwin has a ton of metal. ...and wasn't sure if he was referring to NPC players with abundant resources/low prices or other players who agree to ship specific materials to each other; or something else entirely!

Merlin
02-16-2011, 02:25 AM
The Cost Percent is what you are offering your goods for, and does NOT affect what the seller is offering. Eudrick has aggressively scouted neighbors, and cultivated trade. (Hint: Scouted!)

Rykoffe
02-23-2011, 01:20 PM
Alright, I've summarized my findings. My dwarven army has been kept static, but as I had read somewhere in the forums that the army eats food, you probably want to know how big they are. I am admitting they consist of 3 champions and 101 infantry. (Don't raze me, bro!)

I don't seem to be importing much food at all. Scouts have been sent to every city in the game, starting with the nearest in the early turns and working my way outward. Due to the distance (and probably the lack of sufficient numbers of scouts), not everyone has returned yet.

I'm not entirely positive I understand how the economic game is played, but here are the numbers from the City overview (Summary & Details).

2 Turns Ago
Agriculture: 838.5
Bakery: 41.6
People: 990
Army: 3;101
Food Change: -18.9

1 Turn Ago
Agriculture: 899.6
Bakery: 46.4
People: 990
Army: 3;101
Food Change: +52

This Turn
Agriculture: 909.1
Bakery: 47.2
People: 1,005
Army: 3;101
Food Change: +62.3

According to my history, I've imported a total of 300 food since beginning the game.

Those are just the past few turns. While, of course, Aragon Online could read through my message history to see if I was doing anything right in an attempt to market my way to a full stomach, I have drafted one of my (now named) Priests to write out a slightly-more-colorful version* of my message history for you!

*Starting off with "displaced" for old-times' sake. Minor creative license was used. All references made by Hirdel are entirely fictional, and can be considered inaccurate second-hand information. Let me know if the below should be removed.

By the Hand of Hirdel

Noveria 25th, 1362
We have been displaced into some stone-forsaken tower as a band of goblin raiders pursued us. The garrison
looks untested, and their ratty leader unkempt. The only things that could be grimier than their chief are the
goblins howling just beyond the southeastern hills. As all good dwarves know that goblins cannot read, I, Hirdel of
Baern, scribe these words down so my name lives on after they tear through these sorry excuse for
valley dwarves.



Deceria 2nd, 1362
Perhaps my initial words were too harsh. Despite the fleas nesting in their beards, the dwarves proved themselves
capable of defending their misbegotten ruins; at least against goblins, as all good dwarves know that goblins
cannot fight.

I recognize their banner as a wretched mimicry of the Clan of the Earth Hammer. Either they merely cuffed such
flags and coats over their walls and armor, or these must be one of the long-thought-lost collection of dwarves.

My group had been initially hired to verify an archaic dwarven flagon found in the mountains a just giant's throw
to the northwest of here. It could very well be possible it once belonged to this collection of dwarves; while I no
longer consider them pathetic, even my fellow historians consider them pitiful.

I've ordered my group to move on, while I, and one of my compatriots: Elin of Burdan, will remain behind to
examine these neanderthals more closely. These dwarves have agreed to send a pathfinder with my scriveners,
as they are already preparing to send scouts to their closest neighbors: the Elves of Tentula and the
Gernok Ogres.



Febraria 3rd, 1363
I have shown these scruffy dwarves a map of the region, originally penned by Dagrin of Havar, as all good
dwarves know of Dagrin's legend of the Twelfth Stone.

Perhaps not so surprisingly, these dwarves gave only blank stares when I spake his name. Elin of Burdan will have
to undertake teaching these thralls of the Twelve Trials of Dagrin.

At least, to their credit, the dwarves decided to expand their awareness by sending a prospector to six more
neighboring cities, somewhat further than Tentula and Gernok. These cities, as identified on Dagrin's Cartograph
(Third Revision), are called Freehold, Volcanabis, Jade Mtn., Hildesheimenste, Andralla, Umbreyta, and Kembolt.



Febraria 10th, 1363
Elin brings up a good point: more than a tenth of the dwarves' provisions disappear each week. Most likely into
their tankards! Elin and I may have to move on if the situation worsens.

However, this does produce an interesting, if savage, situation. Will these uncivilized, barbarous dwarves resort
to cannibalism?

Maybe we'll have to leave even sooner. It's a pity that it's far too risky to endeavor to record such things. I'll
keep a close eye on the dilemma so that the two of us can flee before it's too late.



Febraria 17th, 1363
The first emissary returns. The Order of the Raptor flies over Tentula, and they are indifferent to this -- and I
hesitate to use the term -- clan-hall.

In the few days past, the dwarves have shown a remarkable interest in our teachings. Their ways are laughably
old, but the results are only somewhat less effective than the modern dwarf. Even their swords look more like
mismatched cleavers, or axes! A sword is a sword and an axe an axe! Maybe we will show them how a real dwarf
dwarf handles an anvil. It was once written: as all good dwarves know, he who does not learn to smith, stays behind.



Febraria 24th, 1363
The scout sent to Gernok hails the clan guards on his return. Unsurprisingly, Guntillizi of Gernok doesn't care very
much for this clan.

The guards themselves are all armed with old-world crossbows. But, primitive as they may be, they still yield a
surprising amount of strength. Now, if only they could hit something, that would be a sight!

These hungering dwarves have also purchased a speck of food from Dereck of Dunsfeldt, but in their eyes their
larder now has no limits. The preemptive celebration they do tonight has undoubtedly ravished the shipment and
beyond, so this transaction between the two cities does little good.



Markuria 10th, 1363
The successful return of the first two investigators revitalized interest in making contact with the world. They
have begun making plans to find out more about every known settlement on Dagrin's Cartograph (Third Revision).
I suspect this decision was also made in an attempt to procure more fare for their bellies.

Better grain for their gorges than my flesh as their food, I say.



Markuria 24th, 1363
Willem of Westland has sold only half the offering Dunsfeldt had made prior. Despite this insignificant amount,
these dwarves are growing more cautious now, and have attempted to cultivate additional crops to feed their
slowly-growing population. To do this, smithhands have become farmhands, and the fires of various forges have
died quietly, their carved and inlaid weapons no longer emerging victoriously from the smithies.

I think I realize too late the opportunity I had of these dwarves when we first arrived. For all my reverence of
historic dwarven legends, I know now that these people are not wild or primitive. They were authentic history;
and Elin and I have quite possibly meddled in such a way as to extinguish the unique fire of their civilization only
to make it mirror ours. Even if to save them from outright starvation, I will never know if it was right to intervene,
or if we should have remained chroniclers, standing outside the procession of time.

I doubt any true loremasters would want us back. While we can never atone this trampling we have done, at the
least we can continue to aid them. We support the Haven.

By the Hand of Hirdel of Baern

Merlin
02-23-2011, 02:30 PM
*Starting off with "displaced" for old-times' sake. Minor creative license was used. All references made by Hirdel are entirely fictional, and can be considered inaccurate second-hand information Let me know if the below should be removed.
That's great! I'll read it thoroughly when I have some time.

Merlin
02-24-2011, 12:25 AM
Can we put that into our Lore mix?

Rykoffe
02-24-2011, 01:50 AM
Can we put that into our Lore mix?Sure, I don't see why not. It looks polished enough that I don't think I'd have to ask if I can make any changes to it later, (and we can always assume Hirdel, for all his early arrogance, isn't an accomplished note-taker. That's what lackies are for!) I appreciate you asking, and am honored by your interest.

As you can probably guess, this attempt to survive solely on food import hasn't met with success. My city's not starving at the moment, so this wasn't a plea for help or anything. If I understand what I'm doing (unlikely), pretty much everything but Magic production has been dumped to 0% in order to focus more on food.

While a player with more vast resources and contacts might be able to feed his equally vast population, this newbie lacked the awareness or tools to comfortably ride a wagon train of food. Although I've sent scouts out almost immediately after beginning the game, it didn't make any noticeable impact on a new trader's ability to feed oneself.

If an army eats, perhaps permit enemy armies to drop food proportional to their size & current objective? If they don't normally carry long-term provisions and merely forage/rampage their current area for nourishment, it's like they're doing the labor for you, anyway!

As a secondary suggestion just being thrown out here for armies not aligned with the area they are currently in: with insufficient food, stamina and stat-recoveries may be penalized; or brutally simplified with attrition. Since future plans of weather attrition was mentioned elsewhere on the forum, this thought may end up being too much of a pain for travellers. Don't know about anyone else, but in the Sword of Aragon, I think I opted to squirrel my soldiers away until the warmth returned.

Merlin
02-24-2011, 02:47 AM
Food as spoils is a great idea. I'll add that to my list.

Nightstalker
06-16-2011, 03:17 AM
Speaking of roving armies.... Can I split my Army and send out only half? When I go to the Aragon Region level to move and move any of my units all of them follow. What's the trick? I don't want to leave my pleasant city defenseless.

Merlin
06-16-2011, 05:33 AM
Uncheck the "All" box at the bottom of the menu, then select only some of your units to move.

Nightstalker
06-16-2011, 10:09 PM
TY. Have you a spare pair of eyes around? I seem to have misplaced mine. LOL@me.